KRISTEN WELKER:
This Sunday: document defense. President Biden forcefully defends his handling of classified documents after the special counsel declines to bring charges.
PRES. JOE BIDEN:
I did not break the law.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But is the president facing a bigger political risk after the special counsel raised questions about his age and memory?
PRES. JOE BIDEN:
My memory is fine. My memory – take a look at what I've done since I've become president.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I’ll talk to Biden's campaign co-chair Mitch Landrieu. Plus, the art of no deal.
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
Democracy is messy.
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
We crushed crooked Joe Biden’s disastrous open borders bill.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Republicans reject a bipartisan border deal they demanded, and then they failed to impeach Biden’s homeland security secretary
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
The resolution is not adopted.
SEN. JAMES LANKFORD:
The people at home sent me here to get stuff done and solve problems
SEN. PATTY MURRAY:
What is the point of being a senator if you let Donald Trump make all of the decisions for you?
KRISTEN WELKER:
If Congress won’t fix the border, who will solve the problem? I’ll talk exclusively to Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas. And: encouraging Putin. Donald Trump says he would tell Russia to attack NATO allies who don't pay their bills.
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
No, I would not protect you. In fact, I would encourage them to do whatever the hell they want.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Would the NATO alliance be in danger in a second Trump term? I’ll speak to former Republican Governor Chris Christie of New Jersey. Joining me for insight and analysis are: NBC News Chief White House correspondent Peter Alexander; Amna Nawaz, co-anchor of PBS Newshour; former White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki; and Republican strategist Brendan Buck. Welcome to Sunday. It’s Meet the Press.
ANNOUNCER:
From NBC News in Washington, the longest running show in television history, this is Meet the Press with Kristen Welker.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Good Sunday morning. On a week in which Republicans suffered embarrassing defeats on Capitol Hill, it was President Biden who wound up dealing with perhaps the biggest crisis. Democrats are reeling using words like "nightmare," "beyond devastating" to describe Special Counsel Robert Hur's report on President Biden's handling of classified documents. The special counsel found no criminal charges against President Biden are warranted but the report says the president, quote, "willfully retained and disclosed classified materials after his vice presidency when he was a private citizen" including marked classified documents about Afghanistan and notebooks containing sensitive intelligence sources and methods which he shared with a ghostwriter. That's an allegation Biden denies. The documents found in a badly damaged box, near a collapsed dog crate in Mr. Biden's Delaware garage. Especially devastating, the report puts what it calls Biden's "diminished faculties in advancing age" front and center. President Biden fired back on Thursday.
[START TAPE]
REPORTER:
Something the special counsel said in his report is that one of the reasons you were not charged is because, in his description, you are a well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory.
PRES. JOE BIDEN
I'm well-meaning and I'm an elderly man and I know what the hell I'm doing.
REPORTER:
Do you take responsibility for at least being careless with classified material?
PRES. JOE BIDEN:
I take responsibility for not having seen exactly what my staff was doing.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
According to the report, the president did not remember key dates about his term as vice president and the report claims he did not remember, even within several years, when his son Beau died.
[START TAPE]
PRES. JOE BIDEN
How in the hell dare he raise that? Frankly, when I was asked the question, I thought to myself, wasn't any of their damn business. I don't need anyone to remind me when he passed away.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
And a rare pushback from First Lady Jill Biden, calling the special counsel report, including the comments about Beau Biden, “inaccurate and personal political attacks about Joe.” But Democrats worry about the age issue already looming over President Biden's reelection bid. Seventy-six percent of voters have major or moderate concerns about Biden not having the mental and physical health for a second term. That includes more than half of Democrats. It's an issue President Biden has had to address for years.
[START TAPE]
FMR. VICE PRES. JOE BIDEN:
If I were to run I think they're going to judge me on my vitality. Can I still run up the steps of Air Force Two? Am I still in good shape? Am I – do I have all my faculties? Am I energetic? I think it's totally legitimate people to ask those questions. This is for the voters to decide. Take a look. Look at me. See if I have the energy. See if I know what I'm talking about, and make their judgment. Only thing I can say to the American people, it's a legitimate question to ask anybody. Watch me.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
This past week, President Biden confused the names or countries of three world leaders in separate events. Former President Donald Trump, who is 77, has had his own flubs, saying Nikki Haley was in charge of the Capitol on January 6th instead of Nancy Pelosi. He has pleaded not guilty to 40 criminal counts related to his handling of classified documents. And this report argues the two cases are different. While President Biden alerted authorities and cooperated with the investigation, former President Trump, quote, "allegedly did the opposite, enlisting others to destroy evidence and then to lie about it." Trump fired back at that on Friday.
[START TAPE]
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
They ended up with the now famous raid on Mar-a-Lago. We're having a talk, and they raided my house. If he's not going to be charged, that's up to them. But then I should not be charged.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
And joining me now is Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas. Secretary Mayorkas, welcome back to Meet the Press. Thank you for being here.
SEC. ALEJANDRO MAYORKAS:
Thank you for having me, Kristen.
KRISTEN WELKER:
We are going to talk about what's happening on Capitol Hill. But first, I do want to talk about that special counsel report that we just discussed. You obviously work very closely with President Biden as a member of his Cabinet, and I wonder, have you ever seen anything that makes you question or concerned about his mental faculties?
SEC. ALEJANDRO MAYORKAS:
No. And let me take a step back, because I served as a federal prosecutor for 12 years, Kristen. The responsibility of a federal prosecutor is to investigate and learn the facts and apply the law to those facts. The prosecutor did this. The – the special counsel did this in the case, made a conclusion that there is no case, case closed. Then made gratuitous, unnecessary and inaccurate personal remarks, and those are improper. The most difficult part about a meeting with President Biden is preparing for it because he is sharp, intensely probing, and detail-oriented, and focused.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You are saying some of the details are gratuitous. The vice president called what was in the report “politically-motivated.” This is a special counsel that was appointed by the Biden administration. I wonder how you can ask people to have faith in the Justice Department investigating Donald Trump and not investigating Biden?
SEC. ALEJANDRO MAYORKAS:
The Justice Department acts with unflinching integrity. And the attorney general of the United States personifies that every single day, as do the career prosecutors and everyone in the Department of Justice. This special counsel report is an unfortunate deviation from the norms that guide the Department of Justice throughout its history.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Do you think that the president compromised national security in his handling of classified documents? This report says that he stored some of the nation's most sensitive secrets in his garage. Is that responsible?
SEC. ALEJANDRO MAYORKAS:
It is my understanding that national security was not in any way compromised by the retention of documents. The president, according to the report, cooperated fully with the special counsel's investigation.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me ask you about what we are hearing from some Republicans. More than a dozen Republican lawmakers are now calling for the 25th Amendment to be invoked. Just to give our viewers a sense of what that means, it basically would mean the Cabinet would have the authority to start the process of trying to remove the president if he or she is deemed incapable of serving. What is your reaction to those calls? Has that ever been discussed?
SEC. ALEJANDRO MAYORKAS:
Kristen, I don't engage in politics. I'm responsible for governing and following the president's agenda, which I scrupulously do. I have to tell you, I have met with the president many, many times over the course of the past three years. I prepare intensely for those meetings. I follow up intensely from those meetings to make sure that I deliver the answers to the questions that he has po
sed. He is probing, and detailed, and focused on the mission.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But as far as you know, the 25th Amendment has not been discussed?
SEC. ALEJANDRO MAYORKAS:
Not at all.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Okay. Let's move on to what's happening on Capitol Hill. House Republicans are planning to vote for a second time, as you know, to impeach you on Tuesday. They didn't have the votes this past week. They accuse you of “willfully” not following the laws, and therefore not securing the border, and lying about having control of it. Mr. Secretary, these are serious allegations. How do you respond?
SEC. ALEJANDRO MAYORKAS:
They're baseless allegations, Kristen, and that's why I really am not distracted by them and focused on the work of the Department of Homeland Security. I'm inspired every single day by the remarkable work that 260,000 men and women in our department perform on behalf of the American public. I've got a busy day today after the show, a busy day of work. I've got a busy day Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and so on.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me just ask you, though, big picture, you have now been in your position for three years. And let's talk about what's happened during those three years. More migrants have crossed the border illegally last year than ever before. The asylum cases backlog has more than tripled since 2019. You yourself have said that more than 85% of migrants caught crossing the border illegally are being released into the U.S. as they await their court dates. Let's just put impeachment aside for a minute. Why do you deserve to keep your job, Mr. Secretary?
SEC. ALEJANDRO MAYORKAS:
Kristen, the – the data that you cite is a powerful example of why we need legislation to fix what everyone agrees is a broken immigration system. And you take a snapshot of the data over the past three years. Let's take a look before the last three years. That case backlog, which is about 3 million cases, has been growing year, over year, over year. The time between when we encounter an individual at the border and the time of final adjudication of an asylum case has been years, five to seven years, for years and years. I remember when I entered the Department of Homeland Security in 2009, we were wrestling with these very same issues. The system has not been fixed for 30 years. A bipartisan group of senators have now presented us with the tools and resources we need – bipartisan group – and yet, Congress killed it before even reading it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
No doubt there is gridlock on Congress. But do you bear responsibility for what is happening at the border, what the president himself has called a crisis?
SEC. ALEJANDRO MAYORKAS:
It certainly is a crisis, and, well, we don't bear responsibility for a broken system, and we're doing a tremendous amount within that broken system. But, fundamentally, fundamentally, Congress is the only one who can fix that.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You testified for years, really, that the border is secure. And now, in recent comments, President Biden says it's not secure. Do you now agree with President Biden's assessment that it's not secure?
SEC. ALEJANDRO MAYORKAS:
Kristen, the challenges at the border have been long standing. The president correctly noted that those challenges have existed for ten years –
KRISTEN WELKER:
So, you agree with him?
SEC. ALEJANDRO MAYORKAS:
– in fact, even – even longer. There is no question that we have a broken system. There is no question that we have a challenge, a crisis at the border. And there is no question that Congress needs to fix it. And we're doing everything we can within that broken system, short of legislation, to address what is a not just a challenge for the United States but one throughout our region.
KRISTEN WELKER:
NBC News is reporting that President Biden is actually right now considering taking some executive actions to deal with the border. As you know, Republicans are calling for him to shut down the border right now, something that undoubtedly would face legal challenges. But, Mr. Secretary, why doesn't the president just shut down the border and let the courts just try to stop him?
SEC. ALEJANDRO MAYORKAS:
Well, the – the fact of the matter, Kristen, is that we have taken executive actions already. We continuously review what options are available to us. But those are always challenged in the courts. And whether or not they see the light of day and actually are able to be operationalized is an open question. That is why – that is why the bipartisan group of senators actually prepared and presented a piece of legislation that would, you know, base it in statute, the ability to close the border for a limited period of time, an extreme measure, and would – it would be immune from court challenge because it is statutorily-based.
KRISTEN WELKER:
If – if it were done legislatively, no doubt you wouldn't have these legal challenges. But isn't trying to do something better than doing nothing at all? Why doesn't President Biden try to shut down the border? Are you encouraging him to do that?
SEC. ALEJANDRO MAYORKAS:
Well, we have already taken important steps. He – we certainly haven't done “nothing.” I will tell you, we issued a regulation, the Circumvention of Lawful Pathways, that increased – that actually created a rebuttable presumption of ineligibility for asylum-seekers if they did not avail themselves of the lawful pathways that we've built. And so, we've done a tremendous amount. It's very important to remember: We have removed, returned or expelled more individuals in the past three years than the prior administration did in all four.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me ask you, because I just heard you say that you are reviewing what is available to you, which suggests that you may be considering taking new executive actions. Would that include, potentially, detaining families?
SEC. ALEJANDRO MAYORKAS:
Kristen, let me be clear about what I said. We always explore what options are available to us that are permissible under the law. And if we think they’re – they are advantageous in achieving our mission, we institute them. We have made a decision that we will not detain families.
KRISTEN WELKER:
So, that's off the table, detaining families? You've – you’ve rejected it in the past. You still reject it. It's absolutely –
SEC. ALEJANDRO MAYORKAS:
That is –
KRISTEN WELKER:
– off the table?
SEC. ALEJANDRO MAYORKAS:
That has not come back up. We rejected it some time ago.
KRISTEN WELKER:
What about reinstituting the Remain in Mexico policy? That is something that you terminated. Do you regret terminating it given that migration has increased in the wake of that? And are you considering reinstating it, working with Mexico to do that?
SEC. ALEJANDRO MAYORKAS:
A few things about Remain in Mexico: First of all, it depends upon Mexico's agreement. And Mexico has articulated publicly that it will not allow the re-implementation of Remain in Mexico, number one. Number two, it's been challenged in the courts. And number three, remember something – that Remain in Mexico was implemented in January of 2019. In 2019, there was almost a 100% increase in the number of encounters at our southwest border over 2018.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I have to ask you, finally: Here we are on Super Bowl Sunday. I know you were just out in Las Vegas. You were dealing with security matters there. Are you concerned about any threats on this Super Bowl Sunday? Will the Super Bowl be safe?
SEC. ALEJANDRO MAYORKAS:
We have no specific credible threat posed to the Super Bowl. We are always vigilant, always ready. I was visiting with 350 Department of Homeland Security personnel that dedicate themselves to the safety and security of the Super Bowl and to the safety and security of the American people every single day.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Secretary Mayorkas, thank you so much. Hope you have time to watch the Super Bowl tonight. Appreciate your joining us very much. And when we come back, the national co-chair of President Biden's 2024 campaign, Mitch Landrieu, joins me next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. The White House, the Biden campaign officials, appear to have settled on a strategy, attacking Robert Hur and the special counsel report as politically motivated. Vice President Kamala Harris defended the president on Friday.
[START TAPE]
VICE PRES. KAMALA HARRIS:
The way that the president's demeanor in that report was characterized could not be more wrong on the facts and clearly politically motivated, gratuitous.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Joining me now is Mitch Landrieu, national co-chair for President Biden's campaign. Welcome to Meet the Press. Thank you so much for being here.
MITCH LANDRIEU:
Great to be with you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, let's dive right into that report. It was initiated by the special counsel appointed by President Biden's attorney general. Do you – does the campaign accept this report as legitimate?
MITCH LANDRIEU:
Well, of course. First of all, this was a 15-month investigation. The president and his team fully cooperated. And based on the law and the facts, which is what lawyers and special counsels are supposed to look on, the conclusion was that the president has engaged in no wrongdoing. Period, end of story. But unfortunately, that's not where the special prosecutor left it. He decided to add, ad hominem, gratuitous attacks about the president – the death of the president's son, which everybody knows is just an incredible personal thing to him, as it is to any parent who's lost somebody. And then extra attacks that even senators like Mitt Romney and White House counsel under Trump, Cobb, felt was just ridiculous. And you're going to have a lot of other federal prosecutors that come out and say that. That's the thing that really stung the most about it. The most important thing to remember, though, is the president was found to have been engaged in no wrongdoing. Unlike President Trump, which has 91 felony counts pending against him. And, by the way, in over all the depositions that President Trump has taken in those cases, it says he doesn't remember or doesn't know, over 1,000 times. So they’re swooning over whether or not the president remembered the year that his son died and therefore is not fit to be president is just really sad, and below the belt, and unnecessary.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, and just to be very clear, the report didn't say he wasn't engaged in any wrongdoing. In fact, it was quite firm in the fact that he mishandled classified documents. He just wasn't indicted and criminally charged. But let me follow up with you. The documents found in the president’s garage –
MITCH LANDRIEU:
Well, wait, no. Kristen, wait. No, no, no, no, no, no, you can't. No, no, no, I'm not going to accept that premise. In an investigation, a special counsel determines based on the facts and the law about whether somebody engaged in criminal wrongdoing. And he found out that the president didn’t. And as a matter of fact, he's the only special counsel that's been engaged in this kind of activity that had to say that he could not indict somebody. And that is – that is a fact. And so that's the big takeaway from this report, from a legal perspective.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Then, from a legal perspective, that is absolutely right. He said he was not going to indict.
MITCH LANDRIEU:
Thank you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me, though, ask this question, which is that the documents –
MITCH LANDRIEU:
– Because he didn't have the law or the facts to do it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Right. Well, right. But he did say that classified documents were mishandled. And he said that national security could have been jeopardized. But let me – let me ask you this because the documents –
MITCH LANDRIEU:
– Well, yes, but, Kristen, he didn't say, "national security," no, ma'am. I'm sorry. He didn't say, "National security was compromised." And you just heard from –
KRISTEN WELKER:
He said, "It could have been." He said, "It could have been."
MITCH LANDRIEU:
– the secretary of Homeland Security. But it was not. And the facts and the law suggested that the president was not engaged in criminal activity. To be distinguished between the former president, who right now has 91 felony counts pending against him in four different cases. So let's just keep the facts right and let's – let's not make false comparisons between the two, which unfortunately people do a lot of, these days.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Speaking of the former president, here is how President Biden referred to him, his storage of classified documents. He was asked about the fact that Donald Trump stored them at his private resort in 2022. Take a listen.
[START TAPE]
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN:
How that could possibly happen, how anyone could be that irresponsible. And I thought, "What data was in there that may compromise sources and methods?" And by that, I mean names of people helped, et cetera, and just totally irresponsible.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Was President Biden's handling of classified documents also “totally irresponsible”, given that they were found, for example, in his garage?
MITCH LANDRIEU:
Kristen, one of the reasons why there was a special counsel appointed was to – was to gauge that very thing. You will also remember that Vice President Pence went through the same examination. And the conclusion was the same, as it relates to Vice President Pence, and then-Vice President Biden. The special counsel concluded that the law, and the facts, and the evidence suggested that they could not bring any criminal prosecution against President Biden. That is juxtaposed to the 91 felony counts in nature, in tone, and in content. They're not even close to being the same cases. But that's not what the most egregious thing is about this report. It is this ad hominem attack that questioned the president's capacity. And I want to speak to that very clearly because I can testify because I've been working very closely with this president for the past two years. I've been knowing him for 30 years. I have met with him, personally. I have met with him with two people, five people, ten people. I have been on trips with him, crisscrossing the country, rebuilding America, based on this incredible infrastructure bill that was passed. And I'm telling you, this guy's tough, he's smart, he's on his game. And as Secretary Mayorkas said a minute ago, "When you go on to brief the president, you better have your big boy pants on." And this kind of sense that he's not ready for this job is just a bucket of BS that's so deep your boots will get stuck in.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Understood, but Americans don't agree with what you're saying. In fact, our NBC News poll found that 76% of voters are concerned about whether the president has the necessary mental and physical health to be president for a second term. What is the plan to convince voters otherwise?
MITCH LANDRIEU:
Well, let's just say two things. This – this election is going to be about two men, but really two different visions for the country. President Trump, just the other night, confused what day of the week it was. He has confused who the leader of North Korea and China are. He's confused the leaders of Hungary and Turkey. By the way, Speaker Mike Johnson was on, the other day, and he confused Iraq and Iran. And of course, President Trump doesn't know the difference between Nancy Pelosi and Nikki Haley. I know, by the way, last night President Trump saw fit to basically dump on Nikki Haley's husband, who is serving in the military right now because he hasn’t been around. That's what he continues to do. So the people of America are going to have to make a choice: are they for a guy like Joe Biden, who wakes up every day, thinking about the people of America, thinking about how to lift people up; or are they going to be for Donald Trump, who has already said, and you can believe him when he says this even though when his lips move he's usually lying, that he is going to be engaged in revenge in taking us backwards? I think the choice is clear. You know what Joe Biden remembers? He remembers how to build 46,000 infrastructure projects. He remembers how to build one of the strongest economies in the world. He remembers how to make sure that the unemployment rate stays as low as it has for 50 years and to create 800,000 jobs. And that is why, let me just finish, the president says, "Watch me." And the president has demonstrated an incredible amount of accomplishment in a few short years that outpace anything that Donald Trump has ever done, including creating 15 million jobs.
KRISTEN WELKER:
People are watching him. And, again, 76% of them have those concerns and so do some of his donors. This is what the Washington Post is saying, quote, "Top Biden donors were fielding calls and text messages from anxious Democrats, asking if other Democrats still had time to jump into the presidential race. 'When is Gavin getting in?’ or ‘How about Whitmer, or Shapiro?' buzzed around Democratic circles over the last 24 hours." How do you respond to Democrats who say they want to see a change at the top of the ticket?
MITCH LANDRIEU:
I'm in the process of doing it right now and demonstrating that the president's accomplishments have really been second to none. And Joe Biden's going to get up, every day. The one thing Joe Biden is never going to do is, count on this, he is never, ever going to quit because that's not what he's done his entire life, notwithstanding the fact that, by the way, he lost another child early in his life, and he got up, and he went to work. And then –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Mr. Land –
MITCH LANDRIEU:
– he had difficulty with his other son. And he got up, and he went to work, and he's going to keep doing that as we move the country forward.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Very quickly, was it a mistake for him not to do the Super Bowl interview, to miss talking to as many as 60 million people?
MITCH LANDRIEU:
No. I don't think so. I think people really want to watch a Super Bowl tonight and – and think about football. They don't want to hear from a politician. So I think he made the right choice for himself at this time.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Mitch Landrieu, thank you so much for being here on this Sunday. Really appreciate it. And when we come back –
MITCH LANDRIEU:
Thank you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– he says he's going to do everything he can to stop Donald Trump from winning. Former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie joins me next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. While Democrats are whispering concerns about their party's nominee, former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie has been vocally campaigning against the Republican frontrunner, calling endorsing Donald Trump in 2016 the biggest mistake of his political career. Joining me now is former Republican Governor Chris Christie. He's the author of the new book What Would Reagan Do? Life Lessons From the Last Great President. Governor Christie, welcome back to Meet The Press. Thanks –
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
Good to be here –
KRISTEN WELKER:
– for being here.
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
Thanks.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I want to dive right into this special counsel report that we've been talking about throughout the morning. Former Attorney General Eric Holder said this about the report, quote, "Way too many gratuitous remarks and it's flatly inconsistent with longstanding DOJ traditions." Did this report cross any lines for you?
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
I don't think so. And, look, I did this, as you know, for seven years as the U.S. attorney in the fifth-largest office in the country. The fact is they had to give the reasons why they weren't prosecuting when you start off the report by saying that he “willfully and knowingly retained classified documents.” Well, that's a violation of the law. So the question, then, for the prosecutor is, "Then why aren't you bringing charges?" And he gave two reasons essentially. One was President Biden's memory, lack of memory, his condition, and secondly, was that President Biden cooperated. Once documents were discovered, he let them go in and do whatever they needed to do to get those documents, retrieve them, as opposed to what President Trump did.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah. Well, you know, it's interesting because Donald Trump called the decision not to prosecute President Biden, as you know, proof that there is in fact a two-tiered system of justice. Do you agree with that assessment?
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
No, because in fact if there was a two-tiered system of justice, what would have happened would have been they just would have announced that they weren't prosecuting him and they wouldn't have given any of the reasons. I have to tell you the truth: In one respect I think the Biden White House would have been happier if he had been charge than for that report to have come out in the midst of a reelection campaign. The fact is: When you're questioning what 70-some percent of the American people are already questioning – whether Joe Biden is too old for the job – and now you have an independent counsel, a special counsel, appointed by his own justice department, concluding that he couldn't bring a trial for that reason, that's much more damaging, politically, than whether people would have agreed or disagreed with him being charged. And, look, in the end, this is the problem. Both of these candidates are people who are being questioned for their competence and being questioned for their character. And that's a problem for the American people.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, speaking of which we got a new set of comments from former President Trump overnight. He basically is recounting a story, conversation, he says he had with one of the NATO leaders about paying their fair share in the face of these threats by Vladimir Putin. Let's take a look. I'm going to get your reaction on the other side.
[START TAPE]
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP:
One of the presidents of a big country stood up, said, "Well, sir, if we don't pay and we're attacked by Russia, will you protect us?" I said, "You didn't pay. You're delinquent?" He said, "Yes. Let's say that happened." "No, I would not protect you. In fact, I would encourage them to do whatever the hell they want. You've got to pay. You've got to pay. Your bills."
[STOP TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
What do you make of that?
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
Well, look, this is why I've been saying for a long time that he's unfit to be president of the United States. Now, it's one thing and I think it's right for a president to say to a NATO member, "Hey, you've got to pay the dues you need to pay." I think the American people would expect that of a president. But the problem with Donald Trump is he can't just stop there. He's got to say, "I would encourage Russia to do whatever the hell they wanted to you." That is absolutely inappropriate for a president of the United States or a candidate for president of the United States to be saying. But it is consistent with his love for dictators.
KRISTEN WELKER:
It's inappropriate. Do you think it poses a national security risk to make that kind of a comment?
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
What poses a national security risk is the possibility that he could be president of the United States again. That's what poses the national security risk because we need to take him at his word, Kristen. And the fact is that, as I’ve said earlier, you know, Donald Trump, when he came into office in 2016, was scared. He was afraid to be president. He was afraid of mistakes he would make. He knew he was not ready. And so, as a result, he listened to a lot of very good people around him, like General Mattis, General Kelly, and others about these issues. In a second term he would not.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, you of course dropped out of the presidential race about a month ago, but you say you are still determined to stop former President Trump to reaching the Oval Office again. How far are you willing to go to stop Donald Trump?
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
I'm here, aren't I? That should answer your question.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, have you ruled out running as a third-party candidate?
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
Look, I think that for anybody right now what we should be focused on is looking at how best to serve the country. And what I was so concerned about in the primary was that many of the things that I said members of our party were saying in private all the time. And you know they say it to you too, about Donald Trump, in private. But they're unwilling to do the hard work that's necessary to get out there and do it. Listen, Kristen, the primary was over at the first debate when six of the eight people raised their hand and said they'd support him as a convicted felon.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But have you ruled out a third-party run, Governor?
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
Look, I can't see anybody doing that at the moment. But, you know, no one knows what's going to happen as we go forward. I've said this: Someone would have to see a path to 270 electoral votes to do it. And, you know, I haven't even taken a look at that yet. Like you said, I've only been out of this a month.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Have you spoken to No Labels? They obviously are interested in you.
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
I have not spoken to anyone at No Labels nor has anybody from my campaign done that.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me ask you, in 2016 you told wary Republicans that if they weren't working to elect Donald Trump they were working to elect Hillary Clinton. Let me put that back to you now. If you aren't working to elect President Biden, are you working to elect former President Trump?
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
No, I don't think so because I think what we have in this race is two really, really bad choices--
KRISTEN WELKER:
But how's it different? Those are the choices.
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
It is different because this time we don't know if we're going to have a third choice or not. And so I'm not going to make any commitment. The one commitment I will make to you this morning is I'm not voting for Donald Trump under any circ*mstances. Now, who I might vote for, I'll wait to see the complete field before I make my judgment--
KRISTEN WELKER:
Do you rule out voting for President Biden?
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
I can't see myself voting for President Biden either.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But you don't rule it out?
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
No, look, I can't see myself voting for him because I don't agree with his policies and I have serious questions about his competence to serve another four years. So, do I rule it out? I can't imagine doing it. My guess is, Kristen, if those are the only two choices I'll move to the Senate race in New Jersey, and that'll be my first vote.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But, you know, you keep talking about the fact that a third party likely won't get to 270. So, it looks like those are going to be your two options. You've called Donald Trump a dictator, a threat to the democracy. So why not vote for, campaign for, his alternative if your goal is to stoop Trump?
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
If you disagree – look, you have two different problems here. You have someone in Joe Biden who I think doesn't physically look up to serving another four years whose policies I disagree with in the main. You have Donald Trump who I agree with a number of his policies but who I believe his character absolutely disqualifies him from the presidency. Those are two awful choices. And by the way, Kristen, that's what about 70% of the American people are saying right now, is they don't like either one of those choices. And so what I’d say about a third-party candidate is this: In my lifetime I've never seen a situation more asking for a viable third-party candidate. But whether that will happen or not, I don't know.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Okay. Let's talk about your new book, What Would Reagan Do?. You write, "At this divided, self-consumed moment in American history what we most certainly don't need are any more visions of American carnage or a leader who promises that if given a second term he'll be our retribution. Retribution was a word that never once entered Reagan's White House vocabulary." Can the GOP be the party of Reagan and Trump at the same time, Governor?
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
No, they can't be because there can't be two more diametrically opposed men than Ronald Reagan and Donald Trump. Ronald Reagan saw Morning in America. Donald Trump saw American carnage. Donald Trump sees things in terms of retribution for himself. The only time retribution was ever used by Ronald Reagan is when he was going after America's enemies.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me ask you about something that Liz Cheney has said. She's obviously said she's determined to defeat Donald Trump as well. She thinks that House Republicans have been so co-opted by Donald Trump that it would be better to have Democrats in control of Congress. She said it presents a quote, "threat if there is a Republican majority when it comes time to certify the election." Do you agree that a Republican majority in and of itself is a threat?
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
Well, I'd say this: I mean, if you listen to Elise Stefanik's quote this week of saying if she were vice president she wouldn't have certified the election, and she's a part of House leadership, that's certainly a concern. But what I would say is I want to see who gets elected. You look at folks like Mike Lawler in New York or Mark Molinaro in New York. Those are the kind of Republicans who will be responsible about certifying an election. So I don't think they'll ever get to a majority not to certify the election--
KRISTEN WELKER:
Have you considered leaving the Republican Party?
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
No. No. No, I am ready to change the Republican Party. I will never stop fighting to change my party. I am a Republican, and that's what I'm going to continue to be. And I'm going to work to change the party like I said before. And I wish that more people in our party would look to do the same thing.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Very quickly on Taylor Swift, the conspiracy theories that she's –
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
Outrageous –-
KRISTEN WELKER:
– someone trying to get Biden elected?
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
Ridiculous. Ridiculous. Look, Taylor Swift is one of the great American success stories. We should be celebrating her not having all these crazy conspiracy theories. But this is the kind of thing that Donald Trump brings about.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Well, I know your beloved Dallas Cowboys aren't in the game. My Eagles aren't in the game –
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
Once again –
KRISTEN WELKER:
– but we'll watch anyway.
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
We will, absolutely, Kristen. Thanks for having me.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Thanks for being here, Governor Christie. Really appreciate it. And when we come back, it is Super Bowl Sunday. Our Meet the Press Minute looks at the big business behind the sport. That's next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. If it's Sunday, it's Meet the Press. And once a year, it's also the Super Bowl. Three decades ago, Buffalo Bills super fan Tim Russert moderated the broadcast from Pasadena. Former quarterbacks Roger Staubach and Jack Kemp joined Tim to talk about the business behind the game.
[START TAPE]
TIM RUSSERT:
The Super Bowl is expected to make $30 million. Hasn't this become just a big business and not the sport that you both played in?
ROGER STAUBACH:
Well I, it is, it definitely is big business, but it's exciting big business. I think it builds on itself. It's like a two-week tailgating party right now and, you know, companies get involved. It's a reward system for their people, and it's an excitement. So I think it's a healthy big business.
JACK KEMP:
We recognize that this is a sport. It's a game. It's entertainment. It's business. It's competitive. It's Darwinian. It's survival. And it's, today, bigger than life itself in many different ways. So the players are doing well. Hopefully, there's a profit to be made. It's providing a lot of jobs and a lot of opportunity and at the same time it's a tremendous form of entertainment. That's why you guys are here, holding Meet the Press on Super Bowl Sunday.
BOB COSTAS:
Russert just wanted the tickets.
TIM RUSSERT:
It's called sports journalism, Bob.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Bet those were good tickets. When we come back, can President Biden overcome concerns about his age and memory? The panel is next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. The panel is here: NBC News Chief White House correspondent Peter Alexander and co-anchor of Weekend Today; Amna Nawaz, co-anchor of PBS NewsHour; Brendan Buck, former advisor to House Speakers Paul Ryan and John Boehner; and former White House Press Secretary, Jen Psaki, host of Inside with Jen Psaki. Thank you guys for being here on Super Bowl Sunday.
JEN PSAKI:
Good to be here.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And it is a jam-packed one. Peter, let me start with you, because you were working your sources overnight. You got this extraordinary statement, fundraising email from the First Lady, basically blasting the special counsel report. What are your sources telling you about that and a potential shift in strategy?
PETER ALEXANDER:
Well, she said among other things in that statement, she said that Robert Hur, the special counsel, was trying to score political points, said, "You don't measure the death of your son in years. You measure it in grief." I spoke to a series of officials, including at the campaign, a senior campaign advisor, saying basically the thinking behind this was, "If the special counsel is going to be attacking our son and using him as a political weapon, then she's going to have something to say about it," which is exactly why she spoke out. And a person who's close to the First Lady told me that she was directly involved in the crafting of this fundraising email. Jen, you know well it's not always --
JEN PSAKI:
Pretty rare.
PETER ALEXANDER:
– the case where it's like that. She said among other things that she wanted to speak out in real American mom terms, to say that this wasn't just inaccurate, that it was inhumane. And then she also wanted to make another argument that the First Lady did there. She said that Americans benefit from each of the president's 81 years. His experience, his expertise is what's allowed him to get things done. Quickly about the strategy going forward, I think a lot of folks, as you indicated, say, "You've got to hear more from the president himself." The campaign – excuse me – the White House is focused on doing more of that, sending him out to some of the key battlegrounds. I think we'll see some of that this week for more off-the-cuff, authentic conversations with real Americans. It does expose him to the vulnerability though, that he repeats some of these gaffes that sort of underscore this concern.
KRISTEN WELKER:
It's such a great point, Peter. Jen, I talked to sources who say the gaffes are baked in. It's who Joe Biden is. He's the only one who can get out and fix this. And yet here we are on Super Bowl Sunday, for a second year in a row, he declined to do the Super Bowl interview. Was that a mistake, the chance to not see 60 million viewers? And what do you make of what Peter's saying, the shift in strategy?
JEN PSAKI:
Well, look. I think it's a close call if you're sitting in the White House because frankly the media environment has massively changed since that Tim Russert clip of him hosting Meet the Press from the Super Bowl. That just would never happen today. They know that.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Maybe next year we'll be at the Super Bowl.
JEN PSAKI:
Maybe. If you're them, you're calculating -- first of all, they were asked to cut it down to three minutes. Any smart reporter – which CBS has plenty – would have asked him about things like Gaza and events in the world, and people are just trying to have chicken wings at this point. So I will say just to add to Peter's point, I mean, if you're sitting in the White House and on the campaign right now, you are absolutely banging your head against the wall at the way that the Thursday report has been covered, given all of the things that have happened this week, including – and I know you asked Chris Christie about this – the fact that Donald Trump yesterday suggested that Vladimir Putin should have free rein in attacking NATO allies. And what do we see when we wake up this morning? Wall-to-wall coverage of whether a guy who's four years older than his opponent is too old to be president.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah. And we are going to get to NATO. Go ahead --
BRENDAN BUCK:
Part of the job to bring that to the front is the president's job to bring that out and attack his opponent. I mean, the president is not taking the opportunity on Super Bowl Sunday. He's not taking really any opportunities. And we hear time and again --
JEN PSAKI:
First of all, that's not true. It's not being covered. He has traveled just as much as Donald Trump, as Barack Obama. It is hard to break through the cloud of Donald Trump in this media environment. That is true.
BRENDAN BUCK:
You know as well as anyone he's done fewer interviews, fewer press conferences than his predecessors. And we hear this – we heard from his spokespeople earlier. We're led to believe that there's two Joe Bidens. There's one behind closed doors who's super sharp, who has not shown his age at all. And then when he steps out, we see him every time. It's just not there. And we have to imagine there are people making decisions because they are behind closed doors with Joe Biden and they are also some slippage.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And, Amna, the challenge for the Biden campaign and for the president is changing voters' minds. Because when you look at the polls, 76%. We're not talking about 50%.
AMNA NAWAZ:
It's not --
KRISTEN WELKER:
76% say they have these concerns.
AMNA NAWAZ:
It's not an insignificant amount of people who are worried about this, and the majority of Democrats. To Brendan's point, we know, look, the president's defense has always been, "When you ask me about my age," he says, "Watch me. Watch me do the work." And the fact is the chances to watch him are just rare. He's done much fewer interviews. He's done fewer news conferences than both Presidents Obama and Donald Trump at this point in his presidency. I know we all have interview requests in. You know, Mr. President, we would love to speak with you. But the fact is people are concerned. Democratic officials on the ground are also concerned. Not necessarily those who are in the room with him. They say he is sharp; he is competent. But they're worried about the growing perception. Here's the thing though. When the polls ask, "Are you worried about President Biden's age?" people say yes. What the polls aren't asking, is, "Are you so worried you're not going to vote for him against a man who's been four times indicted and is facing 91 felony counts?" And that is where the rubber meets the road.
JEN PSAKI:
That’s the question.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, and the question also, Jen: How much buzz is there inside Democratic circles about changing the top of the ticket? What is in The Washington Post, what I read effectively --
JEN PSAKI:
Well, first of all, look. I was in the Biden world for about a year and a half, in an official basis. And if they – every time there was an anonymous person in The Washington Post or any outlet suggesting that they wanted someone changed at the top of the ticket – if they listened to that every time, they'd be like in the fetal position under their desk. You know?
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah. Right, right.
JEN PSAKI:
I don't actually hear a lot of people saying that they think that's a reality of what may happen. There's always speculation of like looking for the magical unicorn of somebody who has 50 years of foreign policy experience, who's also 37 years old and can, like, run across the field at the Super Bowl to campaign for president. That doesn't exist. What the Biden campaign needs right now is for people to realize that. That like he is going to be the nominee. This is the choice.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah. Peter, let me ask you about the point that Jen brings up about NATO. We all woke up to these comments that he had made overnight, effectively inviting Putin to attack NATO countries that don't pay their fair share. This is President Biden's strength: foreign policy. Where does the campaign think that they can try to make this distinction with President Biden –
PETER ALEXANDER:
Well, I think are a couple things.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– with former President Trump?
PETER ALEXANDER:
One, to the point that Jen just made there, it's obvious that they view Donald Trump in terms of a contrast campaign as a real threat, not just to NATO but to the United States and the global order that exists right now. Think about the conversations you're hearing among NATO members, some of which are coming out openly right now, about the real concern that the U.S., certainly under a new Trump administration, would be less reliable. And there's no one who would be more concerned about that right now than – not a NATO member, though he would like to be – which is Volodymyr Zelenskyy, the president of Ukraine. Right now, they are already short on ammunition, as the president is trying to get new aid to Ukraine – $60 billion worth – new aid to Israel in the border plan, as well. But it was ultimately the Republicans, as the White House wants to be on offense about. They want to focus on the Republicans who said no to this. That's the message they think they should be focusing on, among others.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And, Brendan, Ukraine aid is still being held up. They're still fighting over that and aid to Israel. And Ukraine, as Peter says, says, "We can't continue to fight this war without this aid."
BRENDAN BUCK:
Yeah. Look, I've had a lot of bad weeks on Capitol Hill in my time. But the last week was nothing short of a train wreck. But it is the job, then, of the president to call it out. It's not a novel strategy. Barack Obama ran very successfully against House Republicans and got himself reelected. Bill Clinton did the same thing. At some point you need to see them take advantage, or else it doesn't really matter. And that's what I think is missing: the leadership from the White House to come in and set the tone of the discussion that we're having. And so far, I don't think I've really seen it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Amna.
AMNA NAWAZ:
I just want to say, too, on this NATO point: one of the things, it's obviously a political issue. We're talking about the campaign. But I spoke to the former NATO chief not too long ago, and he did point out the one good thing the former president did – former President Trump did rather – was get the NATO allies to increase their contributions, which is a good thing for the transatlantic alliance –
JEN PSAKI:
Which was increasing before that under Obama. Just factually --
AMNA NAWAZ:
Correct.
JEN PSAKI:
But –
AMNA NAWAZ:
Just quoting him and what he said in our interview. But he also said, "Look, as much as our allies are watching and they're waiting to see whether America moves towards a more isolationist posture" – which it very well could under another Trump presidency – "our adversaries are also watching." And this axis of autocracy that he points to – China and North Korea and Russia – they are very much probing for weaknesses right now. Even just the conversation about a weakening alliance is bad for national security.
PETER ALEXANDER:
Well, that's why you remember former President Trump said he would end aid to Ukraine within 24 hours of becoming president. Here you speak about service today. You're also reminded we talked about the NATO comments from the former president, President Trump. Just yesterday he made other comments where he was mocking Nikki Haley's husband, a combat veteran who is widely known as serving overseas right now in Africa. And he said, "Where is he? Where is he? He's not side by side with his wife." I think that doesn't sit well with a lot within the military community, frankly.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yes, got a sharp rebuke from Nikki Haley and a lot of other Republicans as well. Thank you guys for a great panel. That is all for today. Thank you for watching. Enjoy the Super Bowl, everyone. We will be back next week because if it's Sunday it's Meet the Press.
